Thoughts on "Fan-Development"

[SuperDanny]

Alright I need to rant! I haven't ranted in years, but I'm all fired up now with concern for Legends 3!

Don't get me wrong. I'm thrilled for MegaMan Legends 3, and I'm sure it's going to be a great game regardless. It's just, I can't help but feel indifferent about the whole fan-development process. After hearing another interview with Kitabayashi saying "Capcom is considering having fans that are writers come up with "episodes" for the game.", I just couldn't hold back my opinion on this whole fan-development stuff.

First off, I think fan-development is a cool thing, really, to a degree. I really liked how certain robot masters/characters were chosen from fan submission contests and whatnot. I wouldn't mind that kinda thing with Legends at all. But when it comes to things like, determining main character designs and actual story segments I can't help but feel a line is being crossed.

I think Legends 3 shouldn't be made WITH the fans, just made FOR them. Hell screw that, MegaMan Legends 3 shouldn't be made for the fans at all. It should be made for Legends, a true to the series, bona fide sequel that the games deserved. That is all a fan could truly ask for. The last thing I want to do, as a fan of the glorious series, is to throw my halfwit ideas at Inafune for him to WASTE TIME CONSIDERING. With a dream-team staff like Legends 3 has, fan ideas should be the last thing they consider. They should really collaborate as talented designers and create a hell of a video game. Just like how MegaMan Legends was originally made.

What I love about the first MegaMan Legends, was it wasn't made for fans. I mean, obviously Capcom wanted fans to buy it, but it wasn't developed specifically for a 2D MegaMan action fan. It wasn't made to cater to any fanbase or depend on any kind of outside input. It was developed by incredibly talented designers doing they're own thing, making an amazing video game. This is how the best games are made.

Maybe I'm just being pessimistic, but I am well aware that the staff would never green light a terrible fan idea. Like I said, regardless, I'm sure the game will still be of great quality. It's just... I can't help but feel the fanbase will be held too responsible. Legends 3 now has to be developed with main character, "Tomahawk Girl" in mind. Not because the staff chose it was the best way for Legends 3 to be, but because it beat the other pictures on an online voting poll. Who are we to choose such important elements in a sequel to such a prestigious series?

ANYWAYS, thanks for reading. I'm curious about everyone's thoughts on the whole "fan-development" issue. I know I'm probably just overreacting but I can't help myself XD

[Servbot42]

Oh, you have no idea how happy I am to see that someone else feels uneasy about letting fans make important decisions.

The second I heard that the fans would be heavily involved in the development of this game, I was concerned. I was immediately reminded of Zeros2Heroes campaign to create a comic out of the completely and utterly amazing CGI show Reboot. Reboot is very similar to Legends in that it has a small but extremely faithful fanbase, it ended on a cliffhanger a back in 2001, and there are many communities hoping for its revival. Well, a few years ago, some site called Zeroes2Heroes gained the rights to make a Reboot comic (Or something to that effect...), and they decided to create a contest to decide which group of writers and artists would continue the series in comic form.

A few months prior to the vote, the various teams put up their art and story ideas for fans to review. The fans could view and comment on almost everything. Character designs, plots, initial scripts, you name it. Based on fan reactions, the teams were supposed to revise their work to please the fanbase in the hope that they would win the contest.

Long story short, the team who seemed to be the most loyal to the source material, as well as the most willing to revise their work, won. The comic they produced was a shallow imitation of the amazing show it was based off of. They struggled so hard to make the characters seem in-character that it ended up reading like a average fanfic at the best of times. They tried too hard to please the fans who had such high expectations that it ended up being a disaster.

This is what I fear will happen with Legends 3. I don't want to feel the hand of the fanbase when playing the game. I mean, aside from those who picked the design that won, who's going to feel excited about that new character? When I see her in the game, I won't think, "Oh, who's that? What's her story? What's she doing here?" I'll think, "Oh. It's that girl the fans picked out for the game." I'll always wonder what that character might have been if the developers had just picked a design themselves and left the fans out of it.

Like Danny said, the game's developers shouldn't be too focused on catering to the fans. They should make an enjoyable game, sure, but they shouldn't spend every moment thinking of ways to appease a specific group of people.

It just occurred to me that they might be involving the fans so that if Legends 3 isn't everything we've ever dreamed of they can turn around and say, "Well, you guys made it, so don't blame us!"

[Red]

I agree in full. See while there are a few fans who actually get the heart of the series and can probably come up with ideas that work, the majority of most fanbases are ... well... not. People who believe that blonde, brunette, and red head are character types, or who just want to get two characters together romantically just because they believe that their character designs would look hawt together. These are fanfic writers who will make the sweet, innocent girl into a manipulative bitch just so their "original" character, who for some reason wields a Keyblade or two, can get with their favorite character, who will most likely not be acting in character and instead have a personality akin to what the "author" sees as "ideal". THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO THINK SEPHIROTH IS A LOVING, CAREING, ROMANTIC PERSON AND NOT A POORLY WRITTEN PSYCHOPATH!!

Ahem... sorry, got off on a bit of a tangeant... In short... while I believe that some fan imput is good, I don't believe they should have a say in major plotpoints.

[undergroundruin]

I Agree Danny. I am excited to see the Heroine stuff though. I just wish they would not show results for them, like the Japanese poll. This way it can be a surprise, and if its a character I did not really think it should have been then the game will show me just how awesome this new Heroine is, rather than getting obsessed with whatever character I thought it should be and losing interest. I dont really think that will happen with me but I can see how many people will try to get all their friends to vote for a certain character so that it will win, when in fact the character should not have won in the first place (meaning it got votes of people that voted just for the sake of voting). I think polls are ok if done right, and now after reading lots of comments on the Dev forum I really agree that maybe putting the fate of the Heroine design in the hands of the fans may not have been the best idea.

Ive read several posts etc where people say "all the fans want this", and "all the fans want that". While I agree with the suggestion that they are talking about It just bothers me when people generalize what they think fans want. I notice that a lot of times in forums people will just stay away from a thread etc that they do not agree with. I also find it funny when I see people suggest things that have been out there on the net for a while (fan projects). While it may be a awesome idea I dont want to be playing MML3 and come upon things that Ive already seen on the net. I want to think of Legends not things I found on the net years ago while I was wishing for a Legends 3.

In reality though now that its setup how it is, the only way to help the fan suggestions not go out of control is to make a account on Capcom Unity, and go post about our thoughts on the subject. Ive posted a little bit about my concernes about this already over there and had a few people agree with me. Sad thing is is that the people that do not agree with the fans having this much impact on the game will most likely not join at all, which leaves it really one sided on the whole matter.

Also like I was saying on the dev forum too was that I wish there was a way I could submit something without everyone seeing it, because once they see it it would be pointless to put it in the game.

[SIMSteven]

Hopefully, Capcom will maintain SOME level of control because if it's entirely a gamble if this level of fan-driven development will work. And if not, it's just a handheld game so they're basically making a game on hardware they're already confortable with since they've been using that hardware since the days of PS2, GCN, etc.... It shouldn't be TOO much of a setback, I hope.

Then again, this is a sequel made a decade later. Sometimes change is good. It's like the deal with the gap between Super Metroid and Metroid Fusion where Fusion was a warm-up for Prime; to get back in the swing of things and refamiliarize people with the series. Then Prime took off like mad and Metroid lived again.

[Kobun]

I completely agree with this. I mean, I think it's nice that they're allowing us to give them ideas about what Legends 3 should be, but at the same time, I think it's getting to be a little bit too much...

It really does make me worry. Why shouldn't it? I think it's time for me to rant a little bit, too. hahah... So don't mind me if I'm not making much sense. But damn it, we've all been waiting for Legends 3 for a decade now and we've all had our fantasies about how it would be and what would happen, but despite all of these "fantasies," we want the real story. Legends 3! Not "Legends 3, And You!" I really hope that Inafune has a story planned out for Legends 3, because I really don't want it to be anything other than an official continuation to Legends 2. It's just got me so worked up, and I'm sure many others. Who can blame us?

Concept art for reaverbots and such are fine, but not the story... I don't think that should be decided by anyone but Inafune.

And I agree with you, Danny. I know it will be one hell of a game, just like Inafune promised us. But with fans having the ability to possibly submit their stories to the developers to be possible episodes to the game makes me worry. I don't want to make Legends 3. I just want Legends 3 to be made the way Inafune envisions it. It's all a fan can truly ask for. I can't agree with you guys any more.

Servbot42, I loved Reboot... That's a pretty sad story you've told...

And dammit, I still kinda regret not voting for Inafune's design...

[SIMSteven]

If fans can create bad designs, fans can also destroy bad designs.

Food for thought.

[servbot4677]

I just hope the fans' input into the game won't kill the direction of it.

Sadly, I don't have any thoughts beyond that. All of you are probably far more read-up on the series than I am atm

[Typhon Purifier 89]

I kind of think of it like this. You do realize that if this was even a consideration, you understand that more likely than not the producers and developers have gone online and seen what it is people want from the game. I'm willing to bet that they have come to THIS site and read our thoughts, and even our stories in the to, to see if there were any good ideas floating around. If they haven't, they are asking for it now. Imagine it, think of that stupid rpg we did 9000 years ago. What do you think would happen if I found out that the main bad guy was just basically a revamped version of Typhon from my story. Besides the fact that you all would BOW TO ME FOR ALL ETERNITY, it would be awesome to know that my ideas shaped a sequel that I loved so much. Unfortunately, fans, as a whole, develop insane drivel and are not worth listening to, even at the best of times, but if you'll notice, it's not like they are asking for storyline development, but things that don't really matter, like, what color clothes should this girl wear sort of things. In effect, you have a say.... In absolutely nothing important, so I sat let them have their marketing scheme. If they can get people to sign onto this story and completely dominate the market, they will make more legends games. Hell, they made a billion of the other ones, why not hype up the one that is actually any good? Plus, I think they finally realizedthat the only people who are gonna buy a game 11 years in the making are the ridiculously rabid fans ( like dia lol) who will flip their sh$& if things don't go the way they want (me lol) so I say let it go, cause I want legends 4, too, and if that makes it happen...

[SIMSteven]

I've been following the Dev Room lately and the good news is that I don't believe that MML3 will turn out to be as bad as we might think it will because of fan-based development.

So far, we have more rabid fanboys and fangirls that want MML3 to stay true to MML3 and we don't have nearly as many "bad" suggestions as you might think there'd be (and the rabid fans will tell them when it's a bad idea because it's so far off the baseline).

Lots of people in the Dev Room forums don't want to have MML3 jump the shark and so it sounds like the game will stay more true to the orignals. Thankfully, Capcom also seems to take a hand in the fan-based ideas and will refine/polish off the ideas that they'll find to be more acceptible.

It's like the Bonne Mecha contest that's going on. It's like a completely opposite contest compared to the heroine where the fans debate which designs are good or not and Capcom will vote on them. It's like a complete reverse of the previous contest. However, I think that the fans will almost have the best ones picked out before they make the deadline.

[Blues]

Yeah, the more the Legends Devroom updates, the more optimisitc I become about the whole situation.

[MegaTuga]

Well I do think that it was a bit.. how to put it... astounishing.
Capcom putting such a project in the hands of the fans. I wonder if later MML3 will be known of the great gameplay, or for being a game that had fan delevoping?

Still it is a very nice idae. Although teh DevRoom seems to be spammed with not-so-useful threads.

[Vanessie]

I personally hate the concept because i dont WANT to know this much about Legends 3.

I want to be completely surprised and on the edge of my seat while loading up every screen, just wondering what am I going to see next. I feel like so much of the game is unesscesarily spoiled for me now. Mundane things like what the mech and townspeople look like? All of this is seriously chipping away at the fun of the suspense of finally playing the finished product.

They should of held proper recruitment contests for writers/ illustrators/ cg artists if they wanted fans to feel like they were making a "real video game"...this experience isnt benefiting any of the fans they think they are reaching out to.

Can the people "contributing" in that Dev room really put this on thier resume? Are they really getting hands on work as developers in the game industry? The answer is a big fat laughing no.

I pretty much agree that it makes me uneasy. Its Legends, a fantastic and strong series that can stand on its own legs just fine, not an experimental internet art project that needs to help it come together.

[Exo]

Jan 19, 2011 13:47:54 GMT -5 Vanessie said:

I personally hate the concept because i dont WANT to know this much about Legends 3.

I want to be completely surprised and on the edge of my seat while loading up every screen, just wondering what am I going to see next. I feel like so much of the game is unesscesarily spoiled for me now. Mundane things like what the mech and townspeople look like? All of this is seriously chipping away at the fun of the suspense of finally playing the finished product.

42 said the same thing, his solution. Ignore devroom.

They should of held proper recruitment contests for writers/ illustrators/ cg artists if they wanted fans to feel like they were making a "real video game"...this experience isn't benefiting any of the fans they think they are reaching out to.

Can the people "contributing" in that Dev room really put this on their resume? Are they really getting hands on work as developers in the game industry? The answer is a big fat laughing no.

It's benefiting capcom because the legends series will attain a larger cult following and a quite a bit of attention with this original and innovative approach to game designing.

It's benefits the fans because they love the games, can you imagine how awesome it would be to see YOUR piece of art in the game? You will always think "woah oh my god double-rainbow I made this... I MADE THIS!!!!" Every time you play the game. Even if your not one of the few who has his art selected it would still be awesome to think about how you contributed to this thing here, or voted on that thing there, or suggested that gizmo or whatever.

I pretty much agree that it makes me uneasy. Its Legends, a fantastic and strong series that can stand on its own legs just fine, not an experimental internet art project that needs to help it come together.

Where have you been these last 10 years? If it could 'stand on it's own legs fine' it wouldn't have taken so damn long for a sequel to come round.

[SIMSteven]

Aw, it's not really that bad. I've been quite active over there lately and basically, it's more brainstorming than most people can possibly handle. And well, not many people are active over here despite the fact that MML3 is on its way, even though the game is confirmed to come out and development has just barely started. Normally, you don't hear the announcement until they have something to show and that's usually 1-2 years AFTER development has started.

What's more, we're getting an inside look on game development like never before but they aren't releasing too much detail on the game itself. We don't know anything about the plot other than "launch the rocket to save MegaMan." We're also creating designs with only a few things to go by.

Like for the Bonne Mecha event, all we knew is that the dungeon would be water themed and were given a few premises and objects around the fight. We don't know, for example, why we're fighting the Bonnes again nor why we're in the ruins to begin with. Sure, there's a treasue nearby but when ISN'T there treasure when you're in some ruins? Particularly in the viscinity of a boss fight?

Of course, we're not gonna design EVERTYTHING by ourselves. There's still the usual "teaser" approach to anything they do over there. They don't release info untiless its info that's fit to know.

The most important thing to note here is that it's coming out and that we don't have to mope around every day waiting for that announcement to hear that they're making the game. In fact, we can participate in its creation rather than make nothing but fan-based works. Hey, that's almost like what we've been doing for the past 10 years only this time around, they can actually get into the game and out to a larger audience.