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Post by Typhon Purifier 89 on Dec 7, 2010 2:00:36 GMT -5
Hey, it's not my fault that the developers are Tronites. Which is good, because can you imagine The Misadventures of Roll Caskett? You would send Megaman out on missions to get the money and parts needed to make tiny weapons that Tron could probably use to build WMDs. Occasionally you could venture out of the Flutter to buy groceries so that MM can make your meals when you get pissy because you didn't get what you wanted. I mean, he already does everything else for you, so why not? Oh, or how about Legends Roll in the MvC games? Her only move would be to use MM as a meat shield until the other player got bored and quit. Hahaha oh my god, I think I lost it reading your posts I was laughing so hard. I can see why you write that, cause its so true when you look at it from that perspective. Assuming Roll is totally useless makes her character development....well, totally useless... Assuming a character is that way comes from seeing what it is that you want to see. Don't get me wrong, your posts were actually amazing and I pee'd a little from laughing hahaha (meat shield especially) However, I think maybe you should replay the series again, but pay attention to what they make the characters out to be. Sure, first playthrough of MML2 you think of Tron being the same old badass she was in MML1. But I'm playing it right now, and I'm not so sure that you thinking the developers being Tronites is correct. The entire game revolved around Roll. Playing it again right now, she is mentioned almost every time you do something, or look at a random picture. I was in Saul Kada, and a picture on the wall said that it was of a band Roll liked... Relevance? minimal, obviously.... but it's the scenes with Roll that take the spotlight from Tron. Roll is impatient, she sneaks around, wants to go on adventures, and does basically the exact thing that Tron does... What makes Tron unique and fun is that she is morally.... ambiguous.... so it makes her seem like a more tough person, or having more fun and being all around more interesting.... But Roll does everything she does, and you kind of forget about that everytime, and focus instead on things that are blatantly not true, like her being some sort of crooks stealing Megaman's money and doing nothing. Obviously if you hate a character, you paint her in a negative light, but you just kind of sound like Tron, a useless wish-he-was-mine mentality... Roll is just as adventurous, but she doesn't have the criminal intent. She wants to help people and be a good person. People sympathize with Tron because she is more of a relatable character. She defines that narrow line that everyone battles with with decisions involving regret, and hurting others, and it makes you root for her as the antihero. Unfortunately, she chooses the dangerous, adventurous life that in turn hurts people, even may kill people, and you seem to think that this is a desirable quality. She isn't a more in-depth character, she is just the one that you can live vicariously through as an interesting alternative to the normal choices we make... People don't make bad decisions because they are fun and adventurous, they do it because they are maladjusted. Its fun to think about being a pirate, but it tears her apart. Tron is that shade of grey that makes you forget what it is she actually does. Megaman Legends Pirates are rosy colored hilarious versions of something rather nasty. She isn't complex, and doesn't have a more interesting personality. She is a semi good person doing really wicked things And Tron doesn't "make her own damn money", she steals it. Quite a big difference. If Roll and Tron both were actual engineers, their problems would evaporate overnight... and out of the two, Roll takes the legal route, to make machines for digging, whereas Tron makes her machines to be a pirate... and it turns out that neither are rich, but the reasons WHY are much more interesting. In truth, Tron is the weaker of the two. She is pushed aside by her big brother, who uses her in his pirating scheme, who TAKES ALL OF HER MONEY AND MACHINERY TO DO WHAT HE WANTS, and she just rolls over and takes it. If Tron was really such a strong, independent person, what would possess her to do that? Why wouldn't she just tell Teisel to stuff it, and tell her what SHE is going to do with the Money? Because Tron is a GIGANTIC ASS HYPOCRITE. She is completely averse to any socially akward situation, and handles confrontation like a 5 year old child. She is emotionally stunted, a brat, and is miserable 85% of her time on screen, because she honestly NEVER has what she wants, because her hubris keeps her from ever being as emotionally steadfast and incorruptible. As a person, we find her interesting in her faults, not in her character. If you want to argue that Tron is more interesting, and is tougher, you aren't talking about her personality benefits, you are talking about her cataclysmic failures to develop. She is also not tough... I'm sorry, in no respect is she seen as tough. She is about as ferocious as a kitten. The only thing that fuels her "amazing toughness" stem from two emotions... sheer jealousy or family preservation... Take a look at every fight where she is all "tough"... either she wants him or she hates him for hurting her family. BOTH of these are also found in Roll, so unless Roll is "tough" then Tron isn't. And I'm pretty sure everytime she is outside of a mech of some kind, she is either crying, climbing up a lampost to avoid a dog, or naked. Hardly what I'd call tough. But it's not like Roll would be any better, it's like saying one 14 year old with no weapons would last longer than a different 14 year old with no weapons. Slightly stupid, they are BOTH only good in what they make. Roll on the other hand is not boring, in fact, your description of her is the perfect depiction of a woman in every story, the heroine that saves the day and is destined to end up with the hero. Thats kind of a stupid argument. Why do you think that every story ends up that way? Because it ISN'T boring to see the girl and boy develop feelings for each other through mutual perserverence. Roll is basically... the angel.... the paragon of integrity with the wild streak that cares too much about people to have them hurt.... and yeah, you can say "if the story has been told a million times, that makes it boring" Well, classics don't lie. In fact, those people who seem the most interesting are the ones who self destruct. In MML2, Tron is played WAAY down... Where Roll is there every step of the way. And really the truth is that even if Roll is just Spotting for Megaman, and you believe the crap that Tron says about her not wanting to go on digs, even though she says repeatedly, and even attempts to do it alone in MML2, the simple truth is that Megaman IS apparently semi-retarded and borderline illiterate, and he needs someone to be there to ask him if he sees the door. Roll is more useful outside of the dig. Succintly, you describe Tron's machines as infinitely superior to Roll's, but you fail to grasp the reasons for their creation. The servbots are created because, yet again, she is 1.) lonely because of what she does and 2.) they are created to help her build her machines. What I don't get is that you assume that everything they made was somehow fairly constructed... yeah.... Roll, who has absolutely nothing (not including Megaman, who is obviously useless) vs Tron, 40 servbots who do whatever she wants, Bonne to provide brute strength for simple movement, and Teisel to provide... well, distractions mainly (lol) It also never even close to hints that Roll COULDN'T build an equivalent to Servbots, and its obvious she COULD build such things as Bruno and the other city destroying beasts, intelligence wise. What she lacks is manpower. Which she makes up for in making things that don't fall apart, that are freaking digustingly powerful, and require only a single person to use on a single hand. I'm sorry, but you can build the most elaborate, huge piece of garbage that would require a vast amount of technical knowledge, making you a genius, but who is more of a genius when you make something that fits onto one hand blow up that monstrous beast without even having to move a single step (shining laser, for instance, or any other COUNTLESS machines that she could wear herself). So.... Roll, with her stupid little pithy weapon, standing perfectly still having to press a single switch (which I'm sure she can do, with all that practice "doing nothing" in the Flutter vs Tron's HULKING MANIACAL SUPER ROBOT OF DEATH AND DESTRUCTION OOZING WITH PURE UNADULTERATED GENIUS ON THE VERGE OF DESTROYING KATTLEL.... oh, wait, nope its dead. Roll is Occam's Razor, and Tron is cleaved. If a mentally retarded hero can run around in a circle and blow up her genius... Then is it truly genius? I'm sorry, it's just ridiculous to say she's smarter. I like to think of them as equally smart, it makes more sense anyway. Mostly, I don't discount Tron like you obviously discount Roll. They are both amazing. and in the single time they work together to build something that requires pure genius, and they are on a level field with no manpower advantages... Lo and behold... they BOTH have their work cut out for them. If Tron was so Freaking smart, why does she need Roll? And if Roll was so unbelieveably wealthy from stealing from Megaman and Also stupidly smart, than why is Tron there? They are even in intelligence, I think they just have different ways of approaching problems. Plus, Megaman arm pumps upon seeing Roll naked, after explicitly TRYING to see her that way (lol x10) but is utterly embarrassed for Tron when she is naked, where he does the "embarrassed head scratch" meaning it wasn't as satisfying.... so.... its official Roll is hotter than Tron naked, and hotter not naked... And that's half the battle haha
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Post by Servbot42 on Dec 7, 2010 11:43:36 GMT -5
I've replayed the series multiple times over the years, and my ultimate opinion of Roll each time was that she was a generally bland character. Keep in mind, this is the only place where I actively despise Roll. This is what you people do to me!
When I play the series, though, I kind of like Roll. I mean, she's nice and she...makes things. She always just comes off as the girl who sits on the ship while I do the adventuring. Maybe once or twice she does something to contribute to the action, but each time she would be utterly dead if Megaman wasn't protecting her. On that, you said something that implied that Roll would initiate the end times if she would use one of her own weapons, but she never does. At least Tron has the knowledge and the combat proficiency to use the things that she makes. It's much easier for Roll to just let Megaman do everything.
Yes, Roll waits to go on thrilling adventures where she...looks at a screen to tell Megaman where he's going. And did I even bring up the whole "Roll steals your money" thing? I said she takes her man's money, which she does. Megaman gives her the money that HE earns so she can make weapons. She didn't earn that money. I've played the games and I know Roll really isn't that helpful in the damn ruins. So Megaman does the adventuring, earns the money, and throws it at her whenever he wants some new weapons. The only thing Roll ever did to make money was to sell all of Megaman's property without his permission. She didn't even ask or at least tell him what she was doing. She just sold the weapons that he essentially purchased from her before he could do anything about it. Sounds like she takes all of Megaman's money and machinery to what she wants, and he just has to take it. What a beautiful relationship.
Later on you say that you don't discount Tron. Maybe in your mind making her out to be a murderous, inhuman, emotionally crippled invalid monster isn't "discounting" her, but I really can't agree with that. You also say that her lifestyle is tearing her apart? How do you know that? Who told you that? Unless she's pining over Megaman, she seems pretty content to me.
Also, I never got the the feeling that Tron is Teisel's slave. Actually, most of the things you say about her personality and lifestyle can be countered by how she behaves in TMoTB, which is the only insight we have as to how she lives on a day-to-day basis. Maybe you never played it. Well, stop making things up then. Maybe you don't count it as canon or something like that. Well, that's just an excuse, isn't it?
Despite that, I do want to say that the paragraph where you brought up her faults had the opposite effect on me. I guess you were trying to prove that she's a brat or something, but all of that sounded genuinely fascinating to me. Real people have flaws, and whether we want to accept it or not, a lot of people are defined by them. I would rather read, watch, or play a story about a girl trying to deal with and overcome all of those things than about someone who is essentially flawless. Real people aren't flawless, and if they were they would be boring. Now I know why I like the Bonnes more than the main characters: they're more human than Roll and Megaman will ever be.
Uh...wow. So, in your eyes the perfect depiction of a woman is the most stereotypical one out there? And you can say, "The classics don't lie," but that doesn't make it any less cliche or uninteresting. Go watch a Disney movie if that's what you're after. Meanwhile, most of us who aren't living vicariously through Megaman with a creepy attraction for angelic Roll want to see something unique.
I think Roll's weapons are only as useful as the person using them. You can go through most, if not all of MML1 & 2 with just your buster. Megaman may not have the brains for being a functional human being, but he can fight. It's what he was designed to do, after all. Besides, fighting the Bonnes on the hardest difficulty, which I usually see as the most realistic mode of any game, (Even though I rarely play them...) isn't exactly a breeze for Megaman.
Oh, and how do you know Megaman wasn't embarrassed because he was seeing a real woman for the first time? He sees Roll naked all the time; it's basically just a game for him at this point. He probably keeps a diary of all his successful creeps.
I think it's pretty obvious that we have wildly different opinions of both these characters and what makes a character interesting. Roll, with all her perfection and flawlessness would be suitable as a character on Full House while Tron with her human flaws and redeemable qualities would be at home on (the re-imagined) Battlestar Galactica. (If you haven't seen it, just think of some other character-driven, thought-provoking show and you get the picture.) For me, Roll is too simple and one-note while Tron is too flawed and corrupt for you. I think we will be at this for a long time.
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Post by SIMSteven on Dec 7, 2010 12:54:40 GMT -5
Boy, you're pushy and to talk like you know everything.
For starters, Roll is a passivist. It's a stereotypical role in lots of stories and she doesn't harm anyone even if she wants to. At least she has control over her emotions, unlike Tron.
Second, Tron is an antagonist in the games. She goes around bullying other people and generally, she's there to be a bump in the road wherever you go. She's also stubborn and doesn't quit attacking you because she's has to win that one time to finally feel like she's worth something again. It's the sad state of her life as she mentions near the end of MML2 in the Gemmeinshaft battle.
Third, she indeed does pretty much anything Teisel says to do and attacks MegaMan at every turn even when she doesn't want to. That's because she doesn't have anywhere to go if she speak out against him and she's stuck between a rock and a hard place if she expresses how she disagrees with his rivalry against MegaMan. It's like the Geetz fight where she's able to convince him otherwise but that's only due to circumstances and with the allure of the keys and treasure (and they'd flat-out lose to MegaMan in a Drache).
Finally, where would MegaMan be without Roll? He's probably be drowned in the ocean if she didn't fly the Flutter. The sole purpose of having Spotters is to call in an emergency resque team if something goes incredibly wrong. (I assume she at least has some monitor which relays his vitals to make sure he's alive - even if the radio breaks it might still work better because it sends much simpler transmissions.)
And even though she doesn't use the weapons she makes, MegaMan probably couldn't even count all the Zenny he hauls in every time he goes digging and he can always make more Zenny regardless. It's probably perfectly fine with him if she takes a bit for herself because she IS family to him, at least considering how they've grown up together in the same house since they were kids.
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Post by Servbot42 on Dec 7, 2010 13:28:07 GMT -5
And you don't?
There's nothing wrong with Roll being a pacifist. There are plenty of characters in various stories that manage to be interesting without being some kind of space marine. Roll just isn't one of them.
Again, this sounds interesting rather than depreciating. You guys are making Tron out to be somewhat of a tragic character with depth. Meanwhile Roll is making pizza!1!!
You both make it seem like there's some sort of dark undertones in their relationship. In the games they appear to be a brother and sister who care about each other, but Typhon seems to think she is his slave and you make it sound like he would disown her if she ever went against him in the slightest way. They are pirates. Maybe she doesn't approve of attacking Megaman all the time, but she seems to be all for going with other plans that Teisel cooks up. They had a meeting room on the Gesellschaft which implied that Tron, maybe even Bon and the Servbots, had a say in planning their pirate adventures. In all three games it seems as though they hold each other in high regard.
That last part is an awfully convenient assumption. I'm going to go ahead and assume that she doesn't since she usually goes on about how worried she was every time he emerges from a ruin after losing contact. And she always loses contact. If a spotter's job is to call in an emergency rescue team, she must be a pretty bad spotter. She doesn't know that Megaman isn't trapped or wounded or dead every time he loses contact with her. She just sits there and hopes for the best.
A bit? As I recall, basically all the profit you make goes towards Roll. There's not much else to spend it on, so there's not really anything else Megaman does with his money. Maybe that is fine with him, but it doesn't make Roll look any better.
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Post by Typhon Purifier 89 on Dec 7, 2010 14:48:13 GMT -5
Haha I believe there was some miscommunication on a few ideas. I gotta stop writing at like 3 in the morning. You know, it's funny, I recently found the first time I posted on the boards, and almost immediately the first roll Tron argument started. But it was more like a POODING battle. Lol. But I think that the end of what you said finally put it into the perfect scheme to understand. But first, I just thought that you should know that I didn't discounttron, the pirating and awesomeness is what makes her awesome. If she was dangerous and short tempered, then she wouldn't be fun. That being said, roll IS boring. But what I meant by it being a classic girl and a person you would WANT to be actually meant something similar to, and ties together, every problem we have between these two
Roll is the superego Tron is the id
It's perfect, because you need them both
Roll is the controlling moral, reasoning part of your brain. It's like what you want to be, it's why Disney stories are that way. She is highly moral, meticulous and planning, and stands for being a good person, a good friend, and a strong romantic relationship. It's like she's your guiding voice, the consciousness on your shoulder (sound familiar?). She is kind of like a dream girl, one that doesn't exist, but makes beautiful romantic stories
Tron is the id. She is passion and emotion, the thing that drives us, and excites us to danger. She is the person to act on impulse and anger, and to be confused emotionally, but to crave it. We need her to give us motivation, to stir things up, which is why she seems realistic, and roll doesn't. But in the end, Roll comes out to stop us from doing stupid things, from working too quickly, to check things out and solve problems.
It's not to say Tron isn't rational, given that she is the I'd personified. But she sees ways around the rules and laws to get what she wants. But the id is, like I said, a spoiled brat. It's in it's nature to look out for number one, it's engrained in us when we are born. But we dont act on it due to rational thinking and controlling ourselves to get to be and get what we really want, and that ends up being roll.
Tron is jealous and hard to control, making her awesome and interesting, but in the end she becomes the opposite end of the spectrum of control. She acts by looking out for herself, and totally ignores others, ending up with her liking to be a pirate. But she doesn't feel bad about the lives she destroys, and people she most likely sends to the hospital. But that's part of the story, you need an enemy to fight, so she needs to hav crossedthe line, even if only a little. But she is complicated, cause shehas conflicting emotions that counter her own needs, so she needs Megaman, well maybe not NEEDS, but you know what I mean, and needs to look out for herself with the excitement. So she is so full of angst and inability to control herself that leads to really funny, and interesting, scenarios.
Why you and I like one and the other probably follows these same lines. But that doesn't mean you are ruled by emotions. Normal people aren't this black and white. In people, you need both, and it becomes what you think is the more compelling factor in the implementation of a course of action, the logical analysis or the emotional analysis.
I can't speak for you, but I think that the base of why I like roll more is that I'm ridiculously leaned towards logical response for every answer, even ones that require an emotional basis. From what I've read in what you have always said, instead of focusing on logical character development alone, you also add in emotional bias. Roll is annoying, roll steals money, she is lazy... Whatever and so on. I say Tron is inefficient, quick to lash out, and has the emotional control of a three year old. Sounds like the superego telling the id to think, and the Id telling the superego he's stupid and boring. Of course, it is more likely, for myself, that this is a form of sublimation, because maybe I listen so much to my superego because my id is scary. I need a control over my subclinical psychopathic tendencies. Perhaps you are the opposite, craving excitement because the world of rules is boring. You play a game to be entertained, not learn a life lesson, and Tron is more fun to prance around, and crushing roll beneath her boot.
But roll is about caring for others and doing good, even when no one is watching. If you silence her you do things that end up hurting yourself, and makes you feel guilty.
Like this.... Say you are next to a railroad switch, and a train in coming and it's gonna run over 5 people on the tracks... But if u hitthe switch, it will switch the track, and a train will only hit one person, would you do it?
Now say you are on a bridge over the track, and a fat man is standing next to you, and the only way to stop the train is to push the fat man onto the tracks, what would you do?
Roll or Tron
There isn't really a right answer, just how you approach problems. Roll does it one way, and Tron another , two sides of the same coin.
But it's not like this game itself sparks a metaphysical debate. It's just that Tron wants him to turn to the dark side of the force, but it's not like being ruled by passion and satiating your every whim is a bad thing, it's how you choose to do it. So Tron is interesting because she chooses to express it in ways that run contrary to normal societal terms. But it means that she is weak, weaker than roll in character, and in the end virtue, because she can't stop, but not only that, she chooses NOT to, so if she is happy doing what she does, like in the misadventure game, then she has no respect for others, or care. But it's obvious, cause she is the villain! I can't count that she is the villain of the game, cause she is necessarily evil. But for that to be true, She tries to make up for it in spastic passion, and this makes her interesting, but not a better person, and not a better character.
Roll is the opposite, a paragon of virtue and integrity, doing the right thing, and to be honest, when your parents tell you the same stuff over and over from day one, and u are inundated with virtue from day one, it makes you boring. Roll needs Megaman to be her balance, for excitment, even though she herself is wild in that cute sort of way, but she doesn't act on these things, cause she doesn't want to. She needs him like he needs her, and tron needs Megaman to be HER balance. He's the Ego.
And I think my only real problem at first was who should end up with Megaman. And they balance better than Tron and Megaman.
But yeah, that first post I ever made, you said you would destroy all Roll fans almost immediately lol. I love it. It's like the boards fight over roll and tron has been led by Servbot 42 vs Typhon!!
I love these because it makes me love Tron more too.
Edit: i love how I did this all on my phone, so it took forever and I didn't see either reply haha But no, Tron isn't his slave... But she only does what she is told to do. Teisel trusts her, and her opinion, but he does use her. The bones couldn't be the bonnes without tron and her machines, though, so he has to respect her. But Tron is under to much pressure to stop, Teisel probably would freak out if she decided to. He may not say anything, but everything is riding on her, she may enjoy it, but she doesnt have a choice. Teisel said they would be homeless. And it would basically be all her fault. She is a slave to his will, cause he can only be a pirate, just like she can.
And I dont know, I think the problem is just that you confuse more interesting with a better character. They aren't mutually exclusive, but they are not the same thing. The ambiguity is what is a good character. Tron is a better video game character, you can't have the game without her, where roll could be edited out. But who has the better character? Roll. Who would you rather play in MML? Tron. Who would you rather be with? Roll.
And I don't know about the money thing. Obviously all te money goes to roll... She makes everything... I don't like that argument, cause where do youthink all the money the bonnes gets goes to? It all goes to Tron, so she can make their equipment and run the show. She does exactly what roll does, doesn't she? And when roll buys stuff, it's for her family, like the tv and house repairs. Doesn't Tron do the exact same thing, in misadventures? And in MML? Are you saying she steals everything from her brothers to do what roll does for Megaman? Or are you seriously going to sit there and say "well they share everything and they work together" but then totally say Megaman and roll don't do the exact same thing? Or do you just bad mouth her cause you dint like her as much? Cause I don't think Tron steals from them, nor does roll sit around spending her mans money they just have a different spotter/digger arrangement then the bonnes. If the world is based on these pairings working like Megaman and roll do, you cant just say roll is lazy, or not as brave as Tron. They just work in different capacities. And I'm not so sure roll wouldn't do it, she seems pretty willing through most of the game. Megaman stops her, soo.... I'm pretty sure she AND Tron are going in that ship together, so don't downplay roll so much, you start sounding nasty. And you don't need to attack me, or sim, and sim, the same goes for him. How he argues doesn't matter, as long as it's an argument. Being pushy means someone has an opinion that they are trying to get across by being more mean than necessary, but if you attack someones beliefs, it feels like you attack THEM, so I ignore it when he makes personal slights, none of this is personal...
In fact I'm pretty sure you two are like, my favorite people on the boards that are still around, you know? Or ever, for that matter.
But don't let me end the argument like that, I'm just saying...
This makes me want to do an all legends cast RP with no fan characters, and play this stuff out, you know?
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Post by SIMSteven on Dec 7, 2010 15:45:03 GMT -5
There's nothing wrong with Roll being a pacifist. There are plenty of characters in various stories that manage to be interesting without being some kind of space marine. Roll just isn't one of them. Again, this sounds interesting rather than depreciating. You guys are making Tron out to be somewhat of a tragic character with depth. Meanwhile Roll is making pizza!1!! You both make it seem like there's some sort of dark undertones in their relationship. In the games they appear to be a brother and sister who care about each other, but Typhon seems to think she is his slave and you make it sound like he would disown her if she ever went against him in the slightest way. They are pirates. Maybe she doesn't approve of attacking Megaman all the time, but she seems to be all for going with other plans that Teisel cooks up. They had a meeting room on the Gesellschaft which implied that Tron, maybe even Bon and the Servbots, had a say in planning their pirate adventures. In all three games it seems as though they hold each other in high regard. That last part is an awfully convenient assumption. I'm going to go ahead and assume that she doesn't since she usually goes on about how worried she was every time he emerges from a ruin after losing contact. And she always loses contact. If a spotter's job is to call in an emergency rescue team, she must be a pretty bad spotter. She doesn't know that Megaman isn't trapped or wounded or dead every time he loses contact with her. She just sits there and hopes for the best. A bit? As I recall, basically all the profit you make goes towards Roll. There's not much else to spend it on, so there's not really anything else Megaman does with his money. Maybe that is fine with him, but it doesn't make Roll look any better. Talk about overexaggerating everything ALL of that argument, BTW. First off, space marines don't exist in Legends as far as I know and you're implying that she's trained in armed combat by comparing her to one. Or she's at least a part of some army. The only she does is tinker with weaponry but MegaMan's the one who actually uses them. Touche.Second, Tron kinda is a tragic character with depth. Tragedy befalls her every time she attacks MegaMan and is so stubborn to realize she won't win in a fight against him. She's gone homeless because of that. She may also go homeless if she tells Teisel she's got the hots for MegaMan, too. She's always torn betweeh hiding her feelings from Teisel and revealing her feelings about MegaMan. A common literary techinique is when someone tells their friends and/or family that someone is in love with his/her supposed arch-rival, they're ousted, disowned, or otherwise forbidden from touching on the subject ever again. How do YOU think Teisel would react if she suddenly revealed that about herself after all this time? Not kindly, I suppose. Moving on... The last part of the radio bit I threw in because I knew you'd straw-man it if I didn't throw something else in (but you still did anyways). Considering how the Flutter crash-landing on the island was an emergency accident in the first place, she probably couldn't call for medical aid anyways. I mean no one there seems like they'll survive 5 minutes in the Main Gate and the radio was a plot device there. It's never an issue in MML2, however, because the radio never has problems in MML2 except when Tron jams his signal.
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Post by Servbot42 on Dec 7, 2010 16:04:53 GMT -5
Everything all of that argument. Yep.
Thank you.
Alright?
Oh, he would probably beat her savagely. I can so see light-hearted Teisel turning into a real beast.
lol, That was not a straw-man argument. Though I like how your idea of avoiding such an argument is to just make something up. (And hope that I just accept it!) I'm just going to respond to Typhon from now on.
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Post by Typhon Purifier 89 on Dec 7, 2010 17:03:35 GMT -5
Ahhh... I knew i should have gotten on my computer to write, you guys had this whole argument while I sat their writing about how you two shouldn't be attacking each other.... how ironic lol...
But seriously, come on, it's not supposed to be like that.... Like Sim is probably screwing up in grammar and whatnot because he is 1.) angry, and 2.) having so many ideas at once its hard to keep it all straight, and sometimes it kinda just comes out sounding stupid.... but it's not like I didn't know what he was trying to say... albeit it hilarious to read... and servbot 42, while your comment about Teisel beating Tron savagely made me pee my pants laughing (and laughing as I type this) You don't need to be passive aggressive to him... I don't know, I see what you mean.
And it wasn't really a straw man, but I don't think sim meant just to "be there when the crap hits the fan" when you spot, you kinda do everything to make sure they come out... I don't know... kinda seems like a worst case sort of scenario use of the spotter... I don't think it means that the only job they have, so it doesn't mean that she is bad at it... I don't know... I knew what Sim was saying, but I'm not sure what it proved
Not that I discount anything Sim says... I'm glad he's a part time Rollite... of course, he's also a Yunite first and foremost lol
but who WOULDN'T wanna tap that? HAHA Matilda is a hot b*****, and pigtails are like HANDLES HAHAHA....
whoa.... don't delete this post Sim, its not too sexual!! haha
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Post by Servbot42 on Dec 7, 2010 18:24:09 GMT -5
To be honest, I hadn't really considered how the Bonnes divide their share. They probably do have an agreement similar to Megaman and Roll, but my whole point is that Tron does her part in making the money. Teisel, Tron, Bon and the Servbots all get their hands dirty. Roll waits comfortably on the Flutter while Megaman puts himself in danger.
I don't know, it seems like we've reached an impasse.
Like I said and you really, really expanded on, maybe it has everything to do with our own personalities. If that's the case, we will never budge. I will always think that Tron's attributes make her superior while you feel the same way with Roll. And we'll both believe these same attributes are a detriment to the opposing character.
I don't think Tron is just more interesting, I think she is more realistic. All of the flaws and insecurities you brought up make me invest more in her character. They're the reason I love and at the same time they keep me invested in her character because I want to see her overcome them. But she's not all flaws; you make her seem like Angelica from Rugrats at times! She may spend most of the time doing the wrong thing, but she will always do the right thing at the end of the day. I really think that at her core, underneath all the selfishness and petty behavior, she's a good person. And I think that makes her the better character. Maybe not the morally correct one though.
And you know how I feel about Roll And I understand how you feel about Roll and Tron.
It just occurred to me that we're both channeling our inner Tron and Roll for this discussion. I guess we are similar to them.
Oh, and I wouldn't want to be with either of them. But I sure as hell would rather be friends with Tron!
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Exo
Bureaucratic Unit
Posts: 74
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Post by Exo on Dec 7, 2010 18:32:05 GMT -5
Freudian stuff.
We don't know that Roll is immaculate AT ALL. She is almost never confronted with any ethical decisions and when she rarely is she just sides with her family.
She's always saying things like "Be careful Megaman!" or "Watch out Megaman!" It shows she cares about megaman and she goes after Gramps and Joe when their in danger too.
She cares about her family. That is basically all we know about her.
We don't why she cares about them OR if she cares about anyone else.
Your argument about "perfect Roll" is flawed basically due to a lack of information. We don't know much about her and that's why she seems so bland in comparison to Tron.
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Post by SIMSteven on Dec 7, 2010 18:58:12 GMT -5
lol, That was not a straw-man argument. Though I like how your idea of avoiding such an argument is to just make something up. (And hope that I just accept it!) I'm just going to respond to Typhon from now on. Considering you're avoiding every point made there to begin with and you're all hung up over a simple grammar error, you're a hypocrite by saying that I'm the one avoiding arguments. And real ones at that. Especially when you put Tron on a pedestal and overexaggerate everything you say about her as if she's this messiah and you say how Roll does nothing when that's a false claim to make. Boy, is it ever.
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Post by Typhon Purifier 89 on Dec 7, 2010 19:22:21 GMT -5
Haha, it's my second bachelor's degree... the first being law...lol and I'm going to medical school... I'm weird, I know.... And it's not like its crap... you can't just call shenanigans and say that my opinion doesn't matter because there is a "lack of information"... If that was the case, then why do you like Tron? Whatever it is, your reasons are faulty, because there isn't enough information.... it's just a video game, Tron and Roll can't be liked more than another if you can't give your reasons why you think people enjoy one character over another. And you can't just come in, say "This is crap, Roll faces no moral dilemmas, thus liking her is impossible" Tron sides with her family every time too, doesn't she? And what do you mean she doesn't face the dilemmas? because she isn't physically present? If she didn't face the same demons that Megaman was facing, she wouldn't try to help him stop Tron... And she wouldn't fight Glyde on Nino Island... I don't get it... so you are saying that she doesn't want to help people? She isn't a good person? Did you play the games? Why did she stop the pirates destroying Yosonskehoweveryouspellit? "hmm, I'm approached with a moral dilemma, should I let them destroy the town, or just go write in my diary in the Flutter and let Megaman run after them..." Yeah, no, you're right, she doesn't do anything in the story that makes her seem like a good person "You're pretty good, but your girlfriend is amazing! I've never seen anybody work so fast!" As you save the island "Thanks to MegaMan's donations, the village of Pokte, which was destroyed by the Bonnes, has been rebuilt. MegaMan's such a nice person--he always helps people in trouble. I wish more people could be like him!" Seems odd she would find that a good thing if she wasn't a.... good person... And I didn't say she was perfect... You and 42 kind of seemed to take it that way... But being a good person means perfect to you? No... Edit: Exo, you deleted more than half your post? You don't think I'm like, mad or something, do you? I mean, it's not like you saying "what are you a psychology major, and the things about moral dilemmas were bad. And yes, I said it so you are attacking me, but it's not like you can be wrong! And don't think you have to delete stuff because I disagree, or you say what I think is crap. Hell if no one did that these boards wouldn't be half as fun. And while 42 and sim are kind of having a.... Spat... Don't think that you should change what you write. Even if I prove you wrong later, which I'm not saying I did, it shouldn't matter. People write stupid stuff on forums all the time... Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go read up on methicillin-resistant staphylococcus aureus and it's overused treatment, vancomycin Edit to my edit: look what I found in an old thread on a sort of related subject, it's the one Servbot 42 first replied in lol OWNED!! OWNED!! You can say "what if" all you want but Cere has a point, Tron never fought MegaMan with her bare hands "in-game" and Roll has, and Roll can KILL MegaMan with her bare hands, and there is no liable evidence proving Tron can do this too. Both times Tron touched MegaMan with her hands he received no damage. You can discuss things like hand strength and aggression all you want, but when it comes down to it, Roll did it in-game, Tron hasn't. So sayeth the MLU savior, SD. Amen hahaha I'm not arguing with this, I just that it was funny, never really thought about it before...
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Post by SuperDanny on Dec 19, 2010 20:59:11 GMT -5
Oh man, Typhon's Reunion thread turned into another "Troll vs. Ron" thread before I could say anything. It's very nostalgic seeing members rant huge walls of text in support of their beloved character (or in spite of their most hated character) again though. Good times!
Man Typhon, I'm so sorry I never replied to any of the chaos you restored to MLU. I have to admit I do a terrible job keeping tabs on the boards nowadays, and it is so awesome seeing you back in full force like this. You're indeed a happy reminder of what the boards used to be like, and it really makes me glad to see you're still just as passionate as ever.
Getting back on topic though, after all these years, I've just been busy living, like all of us. It's easy to get distracted from a slow message board, I know. I have to admit even I got distracted from the boards for long periods, sometimes feeling more like your average lurker than an admin. Yes, I feel guilty. But man is it nice seeing topics like this. I'm very proud of MLU, especially because of it's history. It's been around for a long time. In fact, this month marks the 10 year anniversary of when I made the first version of my website, and then 3 years after that I made the boards. The message board has seen a lot, and now it's seeing Legends 3. I'm really happy the site/boards lived to see it happen. I thank everyone who ever visited, especially the current members keepin it real after all this time. A reunion party does sound awesome, if not just a Welcome Back Typhon Party! Really, boogie down and what not! Free pooding for everyone!
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Post by SIMSteven on Dec 19, 2010 21:03:54 GMT -5
Oh man, Typhon's Reunion thread turned into another "Troll vs. Ron" thread before I could say anything. It's very nostalgic seeing members rant huge walls of text in support of their beloved character (or in spite of their most hated character) again though. Good times! Man Typhon, I'm so sorry I never replied to any of the chaos you restored to MLU. I have to admit I do a terrible job keeping tabs on the boards nowadays, and it is so awesome seeing you back in full force like this. You're indeed a happy reminder of what the boards used to be like, and it really makes me glad to see you're still just as passionate as ever. Getting back on topic though, after all these years, I've just been busy living, like all of us. It's easy to get distracted from a slow message board, I know. I have to admit even I got distracted from the boards for long periods, sometimes feeling more like your average lurker than an admin. Yes, I feel guilty. But man is it nice seeing topics like this. I'm very proud of MLU, especially because of it's history. It's been around for a long time. In fact, this month marks the 10 year anniversary of when I made the first version of my website, and then 3 years after that I made the boards. The message board has seen a lot, and now it's seeing Legends 3. I'm really happy the site/boards lived to see it happen. I thank everyone who ever visited, especially the current members keepin it real after all this time. A reunion party does sound awesome, if not just a Welcome Back Typhon Party! Really, boogie down and what not! Free pooding for everyone! (I can totally see a Jon Arbuckle in that last bit. Boogie down!) So if we're getting free pooding, what small country are we going to conquer next?! ;D
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Post by MikΣy on Dec 19, 2010 22:45:20 GMT -5
It's just good to see Danny alive. That post was beautiful.
I've always wished to be a part of the old MLU, but I was trapped in isolation, what more could I do?
Pooding for everybody, and heck, lets destroy Damage's base THEN conquer a small country!
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